Sanctions, Zelenskyy, and the prospect of a jail term: an interview with Petro Poroshenko

This interview with Petro Poroshenko could have happened much earlier. Ukrainska Pravda has invited the fifth president of Ukraine and leader of the European Solidarity Party to talk several times over the past three years, but he always said no. 

Poroshenko's last major interview with Ukrainska Pravda took place on a plane at an altitude of several thousand metres when he was on his way back to Ukraine a few weeks before Russia’s full-scale invasion started. In that interview, Poroshenko criticised Ukraine’s current president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and commented on the notice of suspicion that had been served against him in a criminal case. 

Three years on, following the imposition of sanctions and another invitation from our team, he is meeting with Ukrainska Pravda again. And once again, we discussed Poroshenko's complicated relationship with the current government. 

The former president is noticeably milder and more balanced in his statements now. At one point, when talking about his election promises and those of President Zelenskyy, he cuts himself off: "Ah, I’ve still ended up criticising... It doesn't matter. History and the people will judge both Poroshenko and Zelenskyy. I could tell you a lot more, but I'm not going to do that so as not to harm the state."

What does the complicated relationship between the fifth and sixth presidents look like now? Why does Poroshenko believe Zelenskyy had grounds to sanction businessman and oligarch Ihor Kolomoiskyi, and Viktor Medvedchuk, a pro-Russian politician whose daughter’s godfather is Vladimir Putin, but not him? And is Poroshenko ready to become the first Ukrainian president to go to jail?

All this is covered in Ukrainska Pravda’s interview with Petro Poroshenko.

Below is an abridged version of our conversation. You can watch the full interview on Ukrainska Pravda's YouTube channel.

"What the sanctions mean for Poroshenko is not the key point here. Poroshenko will survive"

On 12 February 2025, Volodymyr Zelenskyy officially enacted the decision of Ukraine’s National Security and Defence Council (NSDC) to impose sanctions against you. But journalists and your lawyers have found a number of errors in this document. In particular, there is a missing digit in your tax identification number.

In view of this, have the sanctions against you already come into effect? And if so, how have they affected your life and your assets? 

I would like to get away from the position of "What does this [the sanctions – ed.] mean for Poroshenko personally?" Poroshenko will survive. Although it’s true there are a number of things that are causing trouble. For instance, I can't buy coffee at a petrol station because my cards are blocked, my accounts are blocked, and my assets have been seized.

But that’s not the key point – it's the damage that this [imposing sanctions on Poroshenko – ed.] is doing to Ukraine. It definitely undermines the image of the state.

I’d like to remind you and confirm that the author of the Law on Sanctions is me, Petro Poroshenko, who, as president, initiated it in 2014-2015. However, this law clearly and unambiguously states that in accordance with international practice, international law and the Constitution of Ukraine, sanctions cannot be applied to Ukrainian citizens under any circumstances. This is defined absolutely clearly in this law. They can be applied to foreign states, foreign legal entities or individuals and, as an exception, to persons directly involved in terrorist activities who are terrorists. 

There were several cases during my term where sanctions were applied to terrorists living in the occupied territories.

In 2017, for example, there was an NSDC decision that among other things referenced a large number of Ukrainian citizens, and you, being the president at the time, put that into effect...

...But they were from the occupied territories, had taken Russian citizenship, and were beyond the reach of Ukraine's law enforcement system. There were no other circumstances in which we could have brought them to criminal or administrative accountability, so we imposed sanctions because they were outside the territory controlled by Ukraine.

Imposing sanctions against me as not just the fifth president of Ukraine but also as the leader of the second largest faction in the parliament, the leader of the opposition, certainly demonstrates that rather than fighting for unity and strengthening the defence of the state, the president and his team have moved on to openly preparing for elections. This is very harmful, both inside and outside the country. 

You are not unaware of the very emotional hatred that Mr Zelenskyy has displayed towards me during his term in office.

But on 24 February 2022, you had a conversation with him in which you promised that in the current circumstances, you two were not opponents but allies. Has that agreement been broken? 

No. At least not on my part. 

In the six years that Zelenskyy has been president, I’ve only had three meetings with him, and only one was face-to-face.  

The first was during the inauguration. The second was when Zelenskyy invited me to his office on Bankova Street to ask me to vote for the "anti-Kolomoiskyi bill". Before he even started speaking, I said, "Volodymyr Oleksandrovych, don't waste your emotions, I will vote for this draft law and I don't need anything for it. I won’t make any counter-proposals." [The "anti-Kolomoiskyi bill" stipulated that owners and former owners of a bank whose interests have been infringed due to the state’s withdrawal of a financial institution from the market may receive compensation for the damage only in cash. Nonetheless, a decision to withdraw a bank from the market cannot be declared unlawful and cannot be cancelled. The bill was called "anti-Kolomoiskyi" because Ihor Kolomoiskyi was a co-owner of the now nationalised PrivatBank – ed.]

The third meeting was on the first day [of the full-scale war – ed.]. We had a phone conversation at 07:00. It was the first time he had answered the phone – he had never picked up before. We agreed that we would have an opportunity to talk either before or immediately after the meeting with the faction leadership.

The conversation was very short, very calm. I will repeat it again for accuracy. I said: "Point number one: I am no longer the leader of the opposition. You didn’t say that, I did. Point number two: you are not my opponent from this moment on. You didn’t say that, I did. We have the same enemy: for me, it is not Zelenskyy, and for you, it is not Poroshenko. Our common enemy is Putin." 

"I am very grateful to you for what I have just heard," he said. "Do you have any suggestions?"

I replied: "This time, I do. I need 8,000 guns. I already have thousands of people in my office who have come to defend Kyiv." To his credit, Zelenskyy immediately called the late [Interior Minister Denys] Monastyrskyi, and we received the guns within a short time. 

"We don’t have a battalion of Zelebots, but a democratic political force"

You say that what you’re seeing from the president is an emotional reaction to the name Poroshenko and the name European Solidarity, and that you personally did not break your agreement with him. 

Nonetheless, what do you think of the statements made by some of your fellow party members, who are quite aggressive and don’t mince their words when speaking about the current government? 

I have never called for unity around Zelenskyy or Poroshenko. That is a false unity. I have always said that we must maintain unity around Ukraine, our partners and the Armed Forces.

I can tell you when I was tough enough with the current government. When I see corruption, I think it is absolutely anti the state to remain silent about it. The authorities and Zelenskyy have the opportunity to respond properly by stopping corruption. When I see an attack on democracy, on local government, on public activists or the media, I am not obliged to remain silent; I express my position. But I’d like to emphasise that I have never made it about him [Zelenskyy – ed.] or his family.

But representatives and supporters of your party do.

We don’t have a battalion of Zelebots [staunch supporters of Zelenskyy], but a democratic political force. They [representatives of European Solidarity – ed.] don’t follow commands, either to attack or to remain silent. Everyone has the right to express their position responsibly and to take responsibility for it.

To be clear: as leader of the party, as the fifth president and as leader of the faction, I have never given commands like "Get him!", "Attack!" or "Stop!" They aren’t dogs or animals.

Neither I nor Artur Herasymov [co-chair of the European Solidarity faction in parliament – ed.] have any bot farms. Unlike the authorities, we don’t use this technology. We express our positions on our official pages and take responsibility for them. [On 2 August 2022, law enforcement officials announced that they had liquidated a million-account bot farm which they said was linked to the European Solidarity party; Artur Herasymov later said the accusations that he had organised it were "a smear campaign by the authorities" – ed.]

The people who voted for me – and there are millions of them, from the presidential to the parliamentary elections – have the right to say whatever they like. If I, or the political council of the party, the presidium of the party or the faction, urged them to do that [criticise the authorities – ed.], we would be 100% responsible for that.

"Having been the president is a career crisis. I’ve done every job and I can’t go any higher"

Now you say that President Zelenskyy and his team are preparing for elections and you aren’t. But quite a few people have the impression that you and European Solidarity are doing that as well. Why do people think that? 

Everywhere – in our speeches in parliament, in interviews, on foreign visits – my colleagues and I, my brothers-in-arms, say that at the moment, the issue of elections is destructive for the state.

So why do some people have the opposite impression?

If you give me a specific example, I'll be happy to comment. 

For example, last year’s banners for your charitable foundation with the slogan "Army. Language. Faith", which you used during the previous election campaign, have been spotted. 

I must emphasise that during the three years of [the full-scale] war, European Solidarity did not do any advertising. The advertising for my foundation was solely and exclusively about the projects that we were running together with the Sprava Hromad NGO and was aimed at one thing: here’s a QR code, here’s an account number; if you can, if you agree, please donate money to this or that programme.

My charitable foundation’s logo and slogan were also used as part of a campaign to recruit operators to counter technical intelligence. I fully support this, because there are thousands of such ads supported by certain charitable, business and political organisations, and even political parties, that we have nothing to do with – it’s absolutely common practice in Ukraine. We were not pioneers here. 

Neither our political party, nor the NGO, nor my foundation has run any other advertising campaigns. If it says "Poroshenko Foundation" and someone thinks that's preparing for elections, they’re wrong. We were just reporting to the public.

In an interview with Al Jazeera last year, you said you were ready to run in the next presidential election. Do you still want to since the sanctions were imposed?

I may have phrased my answer wrongly in the interview with Al Jazeera, but it was absolutely clear: yes, I am going to run for election – as a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) from Ukraine. That’s conditional on Ukraine becoming a member of the EU. It was trolling or a joke, if you like, but that was my answer, and I can confirm it now.

Having been the president is a career crisis. I've done every job, and I'm not going to go any higher. So believe me, I have no desire or motivation to get to any position at any cost. 

As for taking part in certain political elections, firstly, believe me, now is not the time for conversations like this, they are harmful – they are attacks on unity.

But I can give you plenty of evidence that the election campaign is now unfolding. We have a Central Election Commission that has done nothing for two and a half years. We have work starting on restoring the voter register. We have the so-called Ministry of Unity being set a task regarding voters abroad: they don’t help people, they’re forming a register. The Ukraine printing plant [which usually prints the ballot papers for elections – ed.] has been asked by the authorities to calculate the cost of printing ballots for the elections.

Moreover, some political parties – not just some, but the Servant of the People party [President Zelenskyy’s party – ed.] – are working to distribute materials, leaflets and newspapers for their campaigning. European Solidarity is not doing this and is not going to do it.

According to data from the Chesno public movement, when you were a member of parliament, you missed 65% of the votes during your five-year term. Why do you need a mandate if you could do both your international activities and your trips to the front line as a public figure and a volunteer – like Serhii Prytula does, for example?

The first priority is the army. The second priority is parliamentary activity. And the second component of my participation in parliament is interparliamentary activity.

In a recent conversation you had with [Ukrainian journalist] Vadym Karpiak, your list was slightly different: the first priority is the army, the second is international diplomacy and the third is parliamentary activity.

If you want to switch the positions of international and parliamentary activities, that’s fine by me. Right now, 70-80% of my time is spent on supporting the military and about 10% each on parliamentary and international representation.

But you can engage in international activity and help soldiers without being a MP. Why do you need a mandate now?

You cannot engage in interparliamentary activity without a mandate.

"Zelenskyy should have sanctioned Portnov, not Poroshenko"

Previously, you’ve often emphasised that "the person behind your persecution is Ihor Kolomoiskyi". Now you find yourself on the same sanctions list as him. How did that happen?

Kolomoiskyi is in prison, but his business lives on because his entire team is now sitting in the Office of the President.

Secondly, sanctions are a political tool. For example, this is the third time sanctions have been imposed on Medvedchuk. Madness! What’s the point, if you already imposed sanctions on him and revoked his citizenship in 2021-2023, but now he’s once again listed as a "citizen of Ukraine" in your National Security and Defence Council's decision on sanctions?

They don’t care about Medvedchuk, or Kolomoiskyi, or Boholiubov, and they definitely don’t care about Zhevago. Zhevago only ended up on the list because he owns Espreso TV. Boholiubov isn’t here [in Ukraine], Kolomoiskyi is in prison, Medvedchuk’s been handed over [to Russia] and had already been sanctioned. The main objective is to be able to announce that all these names are on the same list.

Zelenskyy is obsessed with imposing sanctions. To achieve this, he created a law on oligarchs, which allegedly gave him the right to impose sanctions. Against whom? Against Poroshenko. And only the Venice Commission’s robust reaction regarding the inadmissibility of passing this law stopped it at that time.

Now they’ve decided to do it a different way. And all that’s going on here is political infighting. Zelenskyy has exceeded his powers, he’s obstructing the activities of a public official and hindering the activities of a MP. He will definitely be held accountable for this.

Don’t you think that you yourself opened this Pandora’s box back in the day? First, you signed a law that essentially provides for an inexhaustible list of sanctions, and secondly, you put a National Security and Defence Council decision into effect that applied to a large number of Ukrainian citizens.

Once again: there was not a single Ukrainian citizen who was on territory controlled by Ukraine. A person who is in occupied territory, abroad or in the Russian Federation is beyond the reach of Ukrainian justice.

Sanctions cannot be applied to Ukrainian citizens who are in Ukraine. That was my principled stance as president, and it was taken into account when this law was drafted.

In January 2022 you were outraged that "Kolomoiskyi is subject to neither suspicions nor sanctions". Now he has both. Are you satisfied?

The difference between me and Kolomoiskyi is not only that my behaviour is totally state-oriented, but also that Petro Poroshenko is a Ukrainian citizen and has never held any other citizenship. Unlike Mr Kolomoiskyi, who has Israeli citizenship and may have, or may have had, Cypriot citizenship, and has been deprived of his Ukrainian citizenship.

If he is not a citizen of Ukraine and there are grounds to impose sanctions on him, then sanctions can be applied to foreign nationals according to the law. Legally, Mr Kolomoiskyi is now a foreigner, so there are no restrictions on imposing sanctions against him. It’s the same with Medvedchuk. Medvedchuk is a citizen of the Russian Federation and has been stripped of Ukrainian citizenship. And it is completely legal for Zelenskyy to sanction him for the third time.

But with Poroshenko you don’t have that right, because Poroshenko is in Ukraine and never leaves.

Some politicians and sections of society are now demanding that Volodymyr Zelenskyy impose sanctions on Andrii Portnov [the former pro-Russian deputy head of the Ukrainian Presidential Administration], whom you consider "responsible for persecuting" you. What would you advise the president in this situation: to sanction him or not?

As regards Portnov, sanctions must definitely be imposed. No question. Because Mr Portnov is outside Ukraine, just as he was throughout my tenure. 

He knows he is accountable, he knows what he did as deputy head of [former Ukrainian president] Yanukovych's administration, and he knows what he is doing now by controlling the judiciary and the law enforcement system. I believe that Ukraine's failure to impose sanctions against him discredits not only Mr Zelenskyy but the state as a whole.

Do you know what the main argument [for sanctions against Portnov] is? Volodymyr Zelenskyy has repeatedly said that US and Ukrainian sanctions should be synchronised.

I'm not going to comment on Portnov's second citizenship, although everyone says he has it, but Portnov is beyond the reach of legal prosecution in Ukraine and is subject to US sanctions for his direct involvement in corruption within government bodies and his direct role in threats to national security. Zelenskyy should have imposed sanctions against Portnov, not against Poroshenko. But it seems they have no problem with Portnov.

Actually, the reason for the attack on me was that we have consistently demanded sanctions against Portnov, that we have consistently demanded and still demand the revocation of mandates from the Opposition Platform – For Life party, and that we are demanding that the transit of Russian oil through Ukrainian territory should stop.

What’s more, I was made an offer: if my faction voted for the Khmelnytskyi Nuclear Power Plant bill, I would have no problems with sanctions. [The bill concerns the purchase by Ukraine of Russian-made reactors from Bulgaria to complete the construction of two power units at the Khmelnytskyi Nuclear Power Plant.]

Who made you that offer?

They did. It came directly from the President’s Office. And my response was absolutely clear: the faction will vote against.

"If only Poroshenko's son is asked to return to Ukraine, it will have nothing to do with the law"

What is your eldest son, Oleksii, doing now, given that he has been removed from all registers since 2019?

In 2014, when someone [Volodymyr Zelenskyy] was in Horlivka, hugging bandits and criticising the Armed Forces of Ukraine, my son went voluntarily to the front line and took part directly in the fighting in Donbas as the commander of a mortar crew.

He works in a large international corporation now. He didn't leave in 2022 – he’s had a contract since 2019. He is studying and fully complies with the law's requirements. He also coordinates the operations of a number of manufacturing businesses that are a huge help to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

You have another son, Mykhailo, who will turn 25 soon. What are his plans?

If there is mobilisation, he won’t be like Mr Zelenskyy, who dodged the draft four times, running away from call-up notices.

Mykhailo is studying at a higher education institution. He enrolled prior to 2022.

One could ask, "Why didn’t Poroshenko’s son voluntarily join the army?" People do ask. It’s his choice. He is helping right now. He works with numerous volunteer charities in the UK. He also works as an interpreter for Ukrainian soldiers at military camps in the UK in his free time.

You have every prospect of becoming the first Ukrainian president to be arrested and ending up behind bars...

I am already the first Ukrainian president against whom illegal and unconstitutional sanctions have been imposed.

Secondly, everything depends on the level of incompetence of those making the decisions. I firmly believe that everyone involved in this will be held to account, including those bastards in the Cabinet of Ministers who voted for sanctions against a president without any documentation, and those who will be involved in the future, carrying out [Ukrainian President's Office Head Andrii] Yermak's orders. I hope they have enough common sense not to open this Pandora's box, because as you judge others, so you will be judged.

Don't think this is only about Poroshenko. We're talking about very dangerous precedents being set. Today it's Poroshenko being sanctioned, tomorrow it could be [Ukrainska Pravda's owner Tomáš] Fiala, the day after that it could be [Kyiv Mayor Vitali] Klitschko. If it's allowed, why stop?

Does the prospect of ending up in a cell frighten you?

It's not pleasant. It certainly doesn't inspire optimism. But they’ve been trying for years to lock me up for political reasons... They're not powerful enough.

Sofiia Sereda for Ukrainska Pravda

Translation: Myroslava Zavadska and Tetiana Buchkovska 

Editing: Teresa Pearce